Excerpts from the GBNews Braverman interview, 22 Feb 2023

Q : “You've called the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill ‘one of the biggest tools we have in dealing with the EU over the issue of the Northern Ireland border’. What did you mean by that? What have we used that tool for?”

SB : “Well there are problems with the operation of the Protocol right now and that is clear for everyone to see. There are problems with trade across the Irish Sea within the UK internal Market. There are problems with a democratic deficit, that being that Northern Ireland is still on the receiving end of hundreds of laws being passed at the EU level and applying in Northern Ireland. And there are problems with the delivery of public services in Northern Ireland because of an executive which is not functioning. Now all of those problems need fixing. I believe that the proposed legislation that the government introduces - ”

“ - That allows ministers to avoid parts of the Northern Ireland Protocol as it stands. - ”

“Yes, it’s an important tool in fixing some of the issues that I've just talked about.”

Our analysis : “… in fixing some of the issues…” This suggests that Ms Braverman believes the full solution requires more than the current Bill which is held up in the Lords.

Q : “Doesn't it up the ante? Doesn't it make a deal with the EU tougher?”

SB : “No, I actually think if you look historically at how our deals and agreements have been reached for the EU it's important that we take a robust approach. We need to. You know, my clear preference is for us to reach a workable and pragmatic agreement with the EU. I know that the Prime Minister shares that objective and I know that he's working flat out to reach such an agreement whilst not compromising on our sovereignty or on the place of Northern Ireland inside the United Kingdom.”

Our analysis : “important that we take a robust approach” – A clear message that the UK Government has not been tough enough in its negotiations with the EU. Regular readers know that Brexit Facts4EU.Org has consistently argued for a ‘robust approach’ to the EU since we started seven years ago.

Q : “But that Protocol bill - as you say, a vital negotiating tool - is languishing in the Lords. The word on the street is that No.10’s abandoned it.”

SB : “That's not my perception. I know that the Prime Minister is absolutely committed to resolving this issue, regardless of the implications. It's absolutely essential that we get Stormont back up and functioning, that we restore free-flowing trade across the Irish Sea so that businesses in Northern Ireland and Great Britain can carry out their commercial activities. But also that Northern Ireland's place within the UK is safeguarded.”

Our analysis : “That's not my perception.” This is hardly a ringing endorsement of what No.10 is doing. Has she been involved in the discussions?

Q : “Simon Clark, former cabinet minister, has said there will be a very real problem for the government if there is a Northern Ireland deal that doesn't carry the support of the DUP. Is he right??”

SB : “Listen the DUP are an important voice in this debate and in this discussion - "

" - Can we have a deal that they don't agree to?"

"We have always worked very closely with the DUP. They are unionists, they speak for a significant portion of the communities in Northern Ireland, and they need to be around the table. Ultimately Stormont will only function if the DUP supports any proposal.”

Our analysis : “Stormont will only function if the DUP supports any proposal.” In other words, No.10 must get the DUP onside – something they have clearly failed to do.

Q : “You resigned of course as a Brexit Minister in 2018 over Theresa May's deal. Would you resign over this?”

SB : “Listen I don't think we need to be talking about resignation. I've taken a very forthright position in the past because I've found the terms of previous agreements intolerable. I don't support selling out on Northern Ireland and allowing the EU a foothold in the United Kingdom. It's absolutely vital that we safeguard what we've gained from the Brexit vote - that we go forward as a United Kingdom where the integrity of our Union is safeguarded and we properly ‘Take Back Control’. And I know the Prime Minister shares that objective.”

Our analysis : “I don't think we need to be talking about resignation.” This must be one of the weakest denials available to someone with Ms Braverman’s skills. She is a barrister as well as politician and everything she said in this interview must be viewed through this prism. Her answer will do nothing to quell the rumour mill, which places her in the small list of ministers who may decide to resign if the PM does not rapidly make progress on the NIP and on other key policies.